Podcast: Bonus Episode: Progress with forming The Gospel Coalition UK with Graham Nicholls

This article is part of the Affinity Talks Gospel Podcast series.

In this special episode of Affinity Talks Gospel Podcast, Lizzie Harewood is joined by guest co-host Adam May as they interview Graham Nicholls about the progress towards forming The Gospel Coalition UK.

Lizzie, Adam, and Graham delve into the purpose of creating a broader unity among gospel churches and Christian organisations without being exclusive. They highlight the benefits of partnering with The Gospel Coalitions around the world, such as convening power, international connections, and a theological emphasis that can enhance gospel work in the UK.

They address concerns about the need for a new platform like The Gospel Coalition when Affinity already exists and debate the cultural moment we are currently in, which is calling for deeper gospel unity. The conversation touches on the involvement of Anglicans in the initiative and the importance of transparency and accountability in the process. The discussion stresses the need to balance theological statements and membership structures to accommodate different perspectives.

Listeners are encouraged to engage in open dialogue to address objections and refine the proposal for The Gospel Coalition UK. The focus remains on serving the gospel of Jesus Christ, empowering UK churches, and providing resources aligned with the UK context to benefit local communities.

Listeners are encouraged to share their feedback and join the conversation by emailing office@affinity.org.uk. 

For more information, Affinity has published a Press Release which you can read here. 

You can also watch a short interview with Tim Savage, referenced in this podcast, below.

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Topics addressed in this Podcast:

• Defining The Gospel Coalition UK
• Distinct role of The Gospel Coalition
• Benefits of working with The Gospel Coalition
• Safeguards and structure for The Gospel Coalition UK
• Facing the current ‘cultural moment’
• Navigating theological differences
• Excitement and momentum building
• Anglican interest in TGC-UK
• Inclusivity of key evangelical leaders
• Encouraging Gospel partnership across the world
• Invitation to join in further conversations

Transcript

[0:00] This is a special episode of Affinity Talks Gospel. Lizzie Harewood is joined by our guest host, Adam May, communications and ministry consultant, who is going to be talking to me, Graham Nicholls, about the Gospel Coalition and our plans for the UK.

[0:28] Welcome to Affinity Talks Gospel. My name is Lizzie Harewood and we’re here today to chat with Adam May and Graham Nicholls about the meeting that happened last week concerning the potential Affinity partnership of over 1,200 churches and Christian organisations, moving to form some kind of UK version of the Gospel Coalition. So, we’re here to reflect on that conversation and meeting last week and give our takes on what was discussed. So, Adam. So, Graham, my name’s Adam May for those of you watching and wondering, ‘Who’s that guy?’ I’m Adam, the one Lizzie just referred to. But Graham, as we kick off our conversation, you know, you and I and Lizzie, we talk about the UK Gospel Coalition all the time. But actually, for those who might be watching this conversation for the very first time, because they’ve stumbled across Affinity Talk Gospel, and also given that we’ve said we’re going to keep moving forward, people may not know what the UK Gospel Coalition is. So, Graham, what is it?

[1:33] Well, the idea of the Gospel Coalition UK is to connect with the basic concept of the Gospel Coalition in the UK. We’re hoping that in that way, we can create a broader, deeper unity of gospel churches and Christian organisations. What we’re not trying to do is say we are the only gospel parachurch organisation or we are the only evangelicals. And we’re not trying to create an exclusive group, but we are trying to create something where a lot of churches that I’m in contact with and a lot of Christian leaders and Christian organisations would like to cluster around. This is that broadly confessional style of expressing our theology that the Gospel Coalition typifies – generous, but actually quite well defined. I think there’s a cohort of people, a constituency of people, currently in Affinity, but also some outside Affinity who would really appreciate that kind of coalition. It’s really for that, and we recognise that as we’re doing it, it’s a finely balanced argument about the benefits and the drawbacks, and we don’t want to be disruptive or build an empire.

[2:52] We don’t want to just create jobs for leaders or anything like that. So we recognise all those challenges and that it’s finely balanced, but on balance, I personally, and I think overall the feeling of the meeting was, this was worth pursuing, even with all the caveats and things that need to be dealt with. That was my feeling coming out of the meeting. I don’t know whether that was Lizzie’s as well. Well, Graham, just before you, before Lizzie jumps in, I’m going to ask the question. Have you been surprised by the number of people, you know, we did an Affinity Talks Gospel, and I was grateful to have the invitation to come on and co-host with Lizzie. But, you know, have you been surprised about the number of people who’ve got a view on the UK Gospel Coalition? Yeah, it is quite fascinating that people who didn’t particularly have a view on Affinity, good or bad, have a view on this. So that is a little surprising. But I think when you’re on social media, you get people who have legitimate views that they want to express, but they’re probably not representative of the whole kind of evangelical constituency.

[4:00] So definitely my overwhelming sense from conversations I’ve had from both people who might want to be part of the Gospel Coalition, but also people outside who think, ‘Well, this is not something I’d want to be involved in.’ Generally, there’s a very positive feel about it and about the initiative, even if some of the details are still a little bit grey for them. So yes, I suppose in that context, I’m surprised, but there’s a lot of sensitivity, very legitimate sensitivity about perhaps an aggressive form of complementarianism. There are very legitimate concerns about leaders that aren’t accountable and setting up structures that are self-appointed and self-regulating. So those are all very legitimate concerns. I think it’s all good stuff to talk about, but it kind of loses in all that noise. Is there a good gospel benefit to this? Could more people be equipped, encouraged, challenged, and helped?

[4:59] Feel more part of something bigger and, in that way, spread the gospel better, know Jesus better themselves, and talk about Jesus better. That can be a bit lost in all the procedural detail but also in expressing people’s concerns. So, Graham, one of the questions I raised, and this was on behalf of others that I know who’ve heard of this initiative, was, ‘What is it that the Gospel Coalition UK could do that Affinity isn’t already doing or can’t just decide to do a little bit better? Why is it that we need to have some new platform or some new layer of bureaucracy to deepen our unity with other evangelical believers?’

[5:44] And I brought that question to you from a very neutral perspective, because I’m really open to arguments on either side. So could you maybe just articulate what it was that we discussed in that meeting, Affinity, why sort of big picture stuff? Yes, I think, again, it’s a very good question, and the answer is probably it might be possible to just do that, to do what was kind of called an Affinity 2.0 type of thing. It might just be possible, but I think on balance, and again, these are balanced decisions, but I think on balance, my reservations about seeking to do that and the reason I think the Gospel Coalition is a better option is, number one, that I don’t think just carrying on as we are and hoping to incrementally get a little bit better or a few more members really expresses the cultural moment. There was a real sense in the room and with people I’ve spoken to that this is a moment where, to some degree, with some New Frontiers churches, with Anglican churches, and with actually the people who are currently inside Affinity, but maybe not quite so committed, there was a real moment of, ‘We would really appreciate deeper gospel unity.’

[7:03] And I’m just not sure we can achieve that within Affinity, partly because of the history of how Affinity was formed and the fact that it went more along the lines of those who were independent churches and not part of established churches like the Anglican Church. There’s a bit to do with history and culture. There’s also just a bit to do with the practicality of how you build a team and how you build resources and enthusiasm for something that’s just harder to build by bolting on to something that already exists. It’s much easier to form something from the bottom up.

[7:44] So I think there’s that area to do with the answer. And I think the second answer is you lose all the benefits of working with the Gospel Coalition. For all that there are some demerits, they’re a trusted brand by many, many people. They have great convening power, which was expressed in the meeting very well by somebody. They give us international connections and a theological emphasis, all of which drew people to these discussions. So I think those were the main two reasons. I don’t know if I said anything else, Lizzie, that was convincing in the meeting.

[8:20] Absolutely. I mean, you said a lot of stuff that was convincing, Graham. I think I just observed that quite a few people said, ‘Look, we have reservations and things that we would like to see ironed out. But actually, the convening power of the Gospel Coalition is evident in the very fact that you’ve got so many people representative of so many different Christian organisations of all different denominations and the parachurch organisations as well. That it does have some kind of pull and we talked a lot about how the Gospel Coalition US website is probably one of the most commonly visited websites for Christians, not just in the US but in the UK as well. And actually, wouldn’t it be great to build on that platform, that kind of vehicle, not abuse it, but to point people towards resources that were more UK-centric, that were fitting and speaking into the UK culture more precisely. And it was that building from the bottom up, you just used that phrase, Graham. Some people were like, ‘That’s exciting, but that’s also a little confusing. How can we do that if we’re essentially borrowing something from the US that

[9:36] might have some kind of association? Could you explain a bit more about the safeguards that people might be wondering about how they’re being put in?’ Yes, definitely. I think how can we do that is, in a sense, however we want.

[9:55] The Gospel Coalition as an organisation and the people who are speaking to me don’t want to impose any particular structure.

[10:04] They do quite reasonably want us to commit to the same ministry principles and particularly the theological confessional statement. But apart from that, they’re very relaxed about how it’s formed. And you can see that actually in how gospel coalitions across the world have been formed, and they’re structured in different ways. Yes, it’s interesting you say that because I didn’t realise that the Gospel Coalition… There are so many countries that actually have their own TGC, from Africa to the Netherlands, Italy, India, France, Spain…

[10:39] All over the world, yes. Australia, Canada, yes. And I think I’d only ever really associated it with the US, so that was useful to find out. Yes, they are very relaxed about that. So, I think we need to look at the general principles but also the practical situation in the UK, which is that whatever we build needs to be transparent and accountable. So, some kind of accountability structure, both personally for leaders and also for the finances and the way that things are carried out, are really important. And also that we don’t use this, in one sense, just as a vehicle to raise more money, to employ more people, to build a bigger machine. If it means it builds the kingdom and gets the gospel to more people and connects with more churches, that’s great, but this isn’t just empire building. So, I think a lot of those structures and processes are really important.

[11:14] We would want some representative process where people who were part of the governing body of the Gospel Coalition UK were put forward by organisations that they were representing, networks of churches or Christian organisations, where there was a degree of accountability within those organisations. And we’d want to set up as well with our own structures, both code of conduct and adherence to particular theological statements, which would be a protection for that. So, from how the representation is drawn, but also to how we structure ourselves to make sure that all those safeguards are in place. I think, just my own personal perspective. So, I came at this, I’m quite neutral, hearing questions from different sources, including my own husband. But I went away feeling quite excited and energised that this could be a platform and particular cultural movement that we could, or Affinity could use, or the Gospel Coalition could use.

[12:18] It made me more aware that there are issues that perhaps need to be ironed out and there needs to be transparency around that. But I left the meeting feeling more excited that this could be something that

[12:34] God could use powerfully in a way that perhaps Affinity hadn’t been able to create so far. Yeah. A lot of things have to do with just how organisations work. They’re not always highly principled. I mean, part of Christian power organisations can come and go. I think I might have said this on the other podcast. Churches are the engine of evangelism and discipleship. Parachurch can come and go. And some of the coming and going is pragmatic. It’s to do with what works in a particular moment. It’s not highly principled in that it has to exist or it has to not exist. So, part of my passion for this is pragmatic, to do with, here’s a cultural moment where this seems to be working, we should go with that. God seems to be in it, so we need to go to work in the grain of that.

[13:29] And I think the Gospel Coalition allows us to kind of supercharge that process. So, that’s why I’m very positive about it. I think it’s also worth saying that one of the issues that was raised was to do with the theological statement and the fact that in some ways it’s a bit narrower than the Affinity statement. But in other ways, the practice is a bit broader. So, there’s both those things to steer through.

[13:58] And again, to do with the council that we will form if this goes ahead, we would want men and women on that council, on that leadership team. Quite a lot of capital is made in various conversations I’ve had about the fact that the Gospel Coalition is complementarian in its confessional statement, which some people are very comfortable with, some people are kind of less comfortable with. And I want to navigate a way through that recognises that as the confessional statement that we gather around and that the leaders commit to, but with a generous model in terms of who associates and what membership structure we have. And I think that’s possible to do.

[14:45] And I’ve got some ideas about how we do that. But that is a square that we need to circle. And so, we’re praying about that, that we would get the balance right for that.

[14:55] I was really excited, Graham, coming away, a bit like Lizzie, coming away from the meeting thinking, do you know what? There was such a life in this room that we gathered in, in order to try and see if we can discern under God a way forward. That’s why when the statement came out saying, you know, it was actually then in black and white to say, we’re beginning to move forward. But one of the things that excited me was just picking up on that cultural moment. And now in the fact that, you know, it’s great to see Anglicans, you know, there’s some challenges going on. And, you know, I wonder if you just paint a bit of a picture, Graham, just to let people see what’s been coming into the inbox, the kind of conversations that you’ve been having, particularly with Anglicans. Because, again, one of the things that you spoke about in the meeting was actually

[15:39] we need to move from a broad evangelicalism to something that’s a lot clearer. And obviously it’s just picking up on that cultural moment. And so for me, when you read the statement that was put out and you kind of go, it was a third who were Affinity members, but two thirds who weren’t, you kind of go, that gets a little bit exciting. But particularly because of what’s been coming into the inbox, what’s been floating around on social media.

[16:02] I wondered if you just paint a bit of a picture about what’s going on. Why do you think Anglicans are getting excited about the kind of Gospel Coalition? Yeah. I think there’s a subset of Anglicans, so it’s not all Anglicans, but there’s a subset of Anglicans who, I think, through a combination of things in reality.

[16:20] A different, probably, generation of leaders who are involved, plus what’s going on to do with living in love and faith, plus, I think, a more general feeling about wanting gospel unity and gospel partners, kind of increasingly in a situation where they feel sometimes within their own denomination quite isolated. So, I think that’s going on. But also, we had a representative from the Anglican Mission in England. So, there’s Anglicans who are not Church of England who are kind of new on the block. They’ve got their own distinctives, they’re Anglican, they’re confessional, and they’re very clear on what they’re doing in terms of churches. But they actually recognise we want and we need a network where we can express gospel partnership with other churches who roughly think the same as us and who we can work more closely with. So, I think it’s both happening with Anglican Mission England but also with Anglicans more generally, and being more, I suppose, receptive to kind of thoughts about this.

[17:27] And so, yeah, there were quite a lot of Anglicans in the meeting that people can see if they look at the photos and spot people. There was a question that happened on social media which was worth hitting, which is, you know, who decides who are the key evangelical leaders? And really, the simple answer to that is, anyone that I spoke to who’s interested? So, if anyone’s listening to this who’s interested in forming this kind of a coalition, they are absolutely welcome to get involved in the discussion. So, it wasn’t self-selected by me, it was self-selected by people’s interest. And there’s obviously only a certain set of key evangelical leaders who are interested in this topic. Some are committed to other organisations which have different emphases, and that’s absolutely fine, but they’re not interested in this discussion because that’s not where they’re at, which is fine. I love the fact, though, that it’s still, even though we’ve made the statement to say that we’re going to continue to do further work, I love the fact that the word there is quite deliberate and intentional – further work to be done. And actually, anybody who may have now been shared this conversation because they’re part of the networks, they’re part of the churches that came to the meeting in London last week.

[18:49] But actually, it’s very much an open conversation. So, it’s sometimes about that thing, we don’t know who we don’t know. So, as you rightly say, Graham, there are people who this is not the area of interest at this present time. But actually, anybody who wants to have the conversation, let me just say then for Graham, so he doesn’t have to, if you want to get involved in the conversation, get in touch with us, email office@affinity.org.uk, office@affinity.org.uk. OK, if you want to have a one-to-one conversation with Graham, because he’d love to have that conversation. I can say that, Graham, because I know you would, wouldn’t you? I’ve had conversations with anyone who’s emailed in and wanted to chat.

[19:29] So, I’ve done that with lots of people. As I say, the vast majority of engaged are actually positive about it, but that’s not everybody. I’ve spoken to some people who said, you know, I see what you’re doing, but I don’t think this is a good idea. And those are all useful chats as well. Every time you’re challenged, it’s really helpful. Even if some of the challenging is a little bit brutal sometimes on social media, it’s all helpful because it makes you think, is this a stupid idea or am I not expressing it very well? And it helps you kind of go back to rethinking, why am I doing this, what’s the gospel purpose of this, what’s the answer to these objections? And some of the answers to the objections is, I don’t know. And that’s fair enough. I don’t know yet, or I haven’t worked it out yet.

[20:15] But, you know, all that process is healthy and helpful. So, yeah, do get in contact with us. This is still an ongoing discussion. It will be an ongoing discussion within Affinity for a considerable period, I think. Lots more presenting to do and people to persuade. Lots more trying to form a model. And even if we get a model proposal together about this is how we’re going to do it, you’ve then got to go around

[20:37] and persuade everybody that this is a good idea again. So, there’s lots more opportunities to participate. But again, getting lost in all the noise can be a danger or lost in all the process and to step back and say, I hope somehow in this we can encourage people in the gospel, I hope we can give

[21:12] Joyful in being able to declare and to partner together and that’s something that I want out of this; otherwise, it will all have been just a lot of angst for no good purpose. I think I just want to say that, you know, let’s also be praying for you and others as you make decisions. I’d encourage them. I felt encouraged that at that meeting the conversation kept flipping back to ‘How will this serve the gospel in the UK?’ and I think, you know, as obvious as it seems given the name of the coalition, that is the question we need to keep coming back to. My husband said to me, ‘Lizzie, the question I want you to ask is, “How will this coalition help us in the kind of forgotten backwaters of South Yorkshire? How would that help us in the day-to-day ministry?”’ I do feel that I got a pretty good answer. It may not have a direct impact straight away, but I think the intention is there that this needs to help the gospel, needs to serve the gospel and UK churches, needs to equip and empower people doing that day-to-day grind of serving the gospel in their communities or in their particular areas of influence. So, I would just say, be encouraged. We’re praying for you.

[22:35] Thank you very much, Lizzie, can I just ask you a question? Graham, you can lean back for a second while I ask Lizzie a question. One of the things that we’re sharing with people as a result of the follow-up to the meeting that we had in London – and it’s great to see you in the flesh, by the way – one of the things that we showed was a video from Tim Savage, who’s the international director of the Gospel Coalition. What did you make of his take on what’s going on in terms of that cultural moment? Because, you know, Graham has spoken about the fact that it is that cultural moment. It is this moment where we could have an opportunity. But what are your thoughts?

[23:17] Yeah, I felt quite refreshed actually watching that video because it felt very much that he came with no agenda apart from, if this will help to serve the gospel in the UK, then we are very happy to help equip you and give you some of those tools you might need. But if it isn’t, if it is not right, then this isn’t something that we’re going to push on to you. And I think, as he is actually based in the UK, he seemed to have a pretty good awareness of some of the particular issues and conversations going on, and perhaps some of those concerns about, I don’t know, toxicity in the US, some of the leadership failures and perhaps some of the destabilising issues that might come with change, but that this kind of broader coalition could actually serve the gospel. The UK is going through a different cultural moment than the US is, but as with what’s going on in the Anglican Church, new government as well, not that that necessarily means much because I can’t see anything particularly significant changing.

[24:37] But there may be, yeah, just something at the moment that we want to kind of hang our hook on that might be helpful for UK Christians and for UK gospel organisations.

[24:53] And just to, yeah, I think I just felt refreshed and encouraged that the focus on being gospel-centred was the absolute key and there was no kind of top-heavy hand of ownership that he wanted to dominate or influence any decisions. It just felt very open-handed – ‘If I can serve you, I’m very happy to’. Lizzie, really grateful for you saying that, because actually sometimes we are sharing the video, but from somebody who was in the room who heard it, it was very much presented in that open-handed way. Yeah, and that is definitely… Yeah, I was going to say that definitely is his style. And I showed him not because he was going to be very like, bang, bang, bang, here are all the reasons and here are all the answers and here’s the process. He’s very much not a process kind of person. He’s more of a vision kind of person and has a vision for gospel unity, has a good understanding of the UK as you say because he’s been here for two stints as it were. So, he understands it well and understands the European scene and I’m quite excited for partnership with him because we may be able to both help and get help from European brothers and sisters in the various networks. All these things catalyse relationships which can be again for gospel benefit.

[26:19] So, yeah. So, I mean, we’re gonna have to stop in just a sec. So, we’ve got a nice, neat recording that people have time to listen to. But I would really encourage people, as you said already, Lizzie, to pray for me and others who are having these discussions and to participate. And as much as you can, I don’t know if you’ve got any closing statement, Adam, you wanted to make. Because I was just going to say, well, Graham, we’re talking about further work, and I just go back to that piece again, because it’s further work, which says this isn’t a done deal.

[26:51] We are continuing the conversation. This needs to have a further conversation with Affinity Council and trustees and others who were in the room, who would have heard what was being picked up, but again, to have a kind of conversation. But Graham, just to emphasise as we come into land, you’re very much around and about over the summer in terms of anybody that might be listening to this and goes, actually, I would like a conversation. I know we’ve said it already but just as we come to land just to make sure you’re absolutely certain that you’re happy. I’m always super available. I do have a couple of weeks holiday, which is the summer holiday is the only one I protect. All the rest I’m available during my holidays but the summer holiday I do actually disconnect for two weeks. But other than that, yeah, I’m definitely around and yeah, love chatting with people. I learn a lot. Every conversation helps me. So yeah, participate by all means.

[27:45] Fabulous, well, Graham, thank you so much for taking the time. Do read the statement if you’ve not seen the statement that was produced following last week’s meeting. If you’ve not watched the video from Tim Savage, go and watch the video from Tim Savage. And if you feel like you need to share this podcast recording of Affinity Talks Gospel special edition, reflecting on the UK Gospel Coalition, let me encourage you to share it across your networks because even over the summer, this is definitely worth a good and well-worth listen. But until next time, Lizzie, thank you so much for your time. Graham, thank you so much for your time. And we’ll catch up again on another Affinity Talks Gospel podcast soon. Thank you.